THE SONGS
STEVE MARRIOTT: To be honest with you, me and Ronnie didn't write
an awful lot together. We wrote apart, just like McCartney and
Lennon, Jagger and Richards, they didn't write together, they
just heaped it together. "Rene (the Docker's Delight)"
is probably the one me and Ronnie laughed at the most, and a thing
called "HappyDaysToysTown" [from an idea of McLagan's]
on "Ogdens. Nut Gone Flake," we wrote that together,
oh and "Itchycoo Park." We actually wrote those together.
Well nigh on all the rest were written apart. I wrote "Tin
Soldier," "Lazy Sunday," "All or Nothing,"
stuff like that. Ronnie wrote the more obscure stuff -- really
great songs, good songs. I tended to write the hits, as it were.
RONNIE LANE: Our first single in 1965 was "Whatcha Gonna
Do About It?," which was a bit of a rip-off of "Everybody
Needs Somebody to Love." We didn't have much integrity, did
we?
KENNEY JONES: One of the bands (on the tribute album) have covered
the song "I Got Mine" and have done it just absolutely
amazing. They've basically copied us, it's really Who, and I love
it. I reckon if it goes on the air, it'll be a hit, and I'd love
it to be a hit because it was a flop then. "I Got Mine"
is a great song.
KEN SHARP: I was going to ask you about "You Need Lovin'"
(from the first Decca album). Supposedly Robert Plant was a huge
fan and would come to all the shows, did you remember him from
those days?
IAN MCLAGAN: Oh yeah, he was a little kid, used to go out and
get us cigarettes and drinks. Steve was doing Muddy Waters, we
were doing "You Need Lovin'," Zeppelin got it from us.
KEN SHARP: When you hear "You Need Lovin'," Steve did
his own innovations vocally on that, all the vocals Plant copied
lock, stock, and barrel. How did you feel about that, were you
flattered, because I don't think it ever bothered Steve too much
that Zeppelin copied it?
IAN MCLAGAN: I think it's great, I think it's fine with me, it's
not like they owe the Small Faces any money, if anything they
should pay Muddy Waters, so should've we, you know.
STEVE MARRIOTT: Willie Dixon wrote it, called it "Woman,
You Need Love" or something like that. It was fantastic,
I used to love it! Muddy Waters recorded it, but I couldn't sing
like Muddy Waters, so it wasn't that much of a nick. Whereas Robert
Plant could sing like me. That's basically where it's at. I had
to make up a lot of my own phrasing -- I couldn't sing like Muddy
Waters, Long John Baldry had that down. I was a high range and
Muddy was a low range, so I had to figure out how to sing it.
So I did, and that was our opening number for all the years we
were together, unless we had a short set. That's where Jimmy Page
heard it. He asked about it, and Robert Plant used to follow us
around at the time -- he was like a fan, a very nice chap. That
was one of his favorites. Page, when he was playing bass with
the Yardbirds at a gig in Paris, and Jeff Beck was with them --
they wanted to form a group and they asked me to come with them.
[The original 'Led Zeppelin' was to have been formed in 1966
with Beck and Page leaving the Yardbirds and Moon and Entwistle
leaving the Who, with Marriott as the singer, and the band name
supplied by Entwistle. When Arden allegedly threatened to break
Marriott's arm if he left, the group never happened, although
the instrumental track "Beck's Bolero" was cut with
John Paul Jones filling in for an absent Entwistle on bass.]
I was very tempted but said "Nah that's bullshit" and
didn't. But I thought they were great musicians. When I heard
"Whole Lotta Love" I couldn't believe it. I was astounded,
quite astounded. The phrasing was exact. I thought "Go on
my son, get on with it!" I couldn't believe it, but I was
glad someone took it and did something with it. It was always
a good song, but the phrasing was direct. As I said, he could
sing like me -- he could sing a lot higher than me but he got
a bit screechy -- but he took that note for note, word for word.
It's terrible, innit? It's funny -- you gotta laugh.
STEVE MARRIOTT: I don't like "Sha-La-La-La-Lee," I
think that's fuckin' awful. I don't like "My Mind's Eye,"
I think that's fuckin' awful. "Hey Girl", bordering....
IAN MCLAGAN: I think "Sha-La-La-La-Lee" sucks, I hate
the organ bit in the bridge, the middle. Kenny Lynch was friend
from the Boz People, and we liked him -- used to back him occasionally.
He was a bit of a pushy character, he was a Jack the Lad, and
he had this song he'd written, and he decided he wanted to sing
background on it -- I don't know why -- and he was louder than
any of us -- we were all crowded around one mike doing background
vocals. He's the real high (KEN SHARP: annoying...) voice on it.
You know, what I really like is "I Got Mine," "It's
Too Late," "All or Nothing" (which I played on),
"Whatcha Gonna Do About It?" I think is a fucking great
record. I play that with my current band, and I always play that
"Beat Beat Beat" (German TV) performance for my current
band so they can learn it, because a lot of 'em have heard of
the Small Faces, but never really heard 'em, so I say when you're
doing "Whatcha Gonna Do About It?" it's gotta have this
feel, because it's fuckin' drivin' as hell.
KEN SHARP: Everyone in the band hates "Sha-La-La-La-Lee."
Are you gonna be the only one who doesn't hate it?
KENNEY JONES: (Chuckles) I understand what they mean. When we
were recording it, I think the reason we don't look upon it so
well -- I don't think we hate it, we hate what it stands for.
We had "Whatcha Gonna Do About It," the first one, it
was written by Ian Samwell, and that was a hit. So we said we're
gonna write the next one, and it was called "I Got Mine."
It was great, and it was a flop. So Don Arden said "I'm not
gonna risk you guys having a flop again." He brought in Kenny
Lynch and Mort Shuman, two hot songwriters, and they wrote this
song. And Kenny Lynch, he's a dear friend of mine now, and I always
remind him what he said to me. We were recording "Sha-La-La-La-Lee,"
and Kenny Lynch came out, and it's the only time anyone's ever
told me what to play. He came out and said "Don't play anything
you can't mime to." And I went "awww, fuck that."
But I always remember that and I always remind him of it.
I like the cowbells on that track. It sounds like strings. Funny
enough, I was out in the fields the other day, with my horses
and stuff, and I was singing "Sha-La-La-La-Lee," and
all of a sudden I was singing it with another phrasing, and I
thought "I could hear Elton John singin' it..." and
I thought "right, when I get back I'll have to call somebody
and get a message to Elton...." He'll probably think I'm
nuts, but with a longer, different arrangement, I can actually
hear him singing that.
KEN SHARP: The song "Hey Girl," written by Steve and
Ronnie, forged their writing partnership, occasionally with you.
Do you feel that was a real turning point for the band or was
it later with "All or Nothing?"
IAN MCLAGAN: Well, see, it was only because "I Got Mine"
wasn't that big a hit, and so our manager Don Arden came to us
said we've got to get outside writers, because "Whatcha Gonna
Do About It?" was Ian Samwell. So, as I came in, we had to
have Kenny Lynch for one ("Sha-La-La-La-Lee"), then
"Hey Girl," then "All or Nothing" was a huge
hit and after that we could write all our own material.
KEN SHARP: When you guys recorded "All or Nothing,"
did you sense then that it was a magic to the song?
IAN MCLAGAN: It was very easy on the ear, very direct, like you'd
heard it before. I hate the middle part though, the (sings) --
silly part. I do it with my band though.
RONNIE LANE: "All or Nothing"... I remember Steve wrote
it, we went in the studio and recorded it, and it sounded really
good. It came out and it was Number One, yes it was!
STEVE MARRIOTT: Arden is an excellent manager -- excellent! After
he was talking with our parents, our relationship was bad and
it never really recovered. The release of "My Mind's Eye"
was after the drug thing. We presented a bunch of demos -- left
them in Arden's office -- and then we were on the road, and the
next thing we knew it was out as a single. We hadn't really been
asked about it. I think he took it straight from the tape of the
demo. But we hadn't finished with it, and even if we had, we wouldn't
have wanted it as a single. Our reaction to him when that happened
begins with a "C" and ends with a "T."
KEN SHARP: What do you remember about the first Small Faces album
on Decca?
KENNEY JONES: I remember doing it in IBC Studios, Portland Place,
and Glyn Johns was an engineer there, and the desk he was using
had great big knobs, faders, on it. Great desk, big old valve
desk. We recorded it in no time at all, we just played. Do one
or two takes, and we were gone. "All or Nothing" was
also recorded there.
IAN MCLAGAN: We were on acid for it.
KEN SHARP: (laughing) That early?
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah. In 1966. Yeah. I mean, Kenney wasn't, but
the three of us were. I can remember -- it's all a little vague,
but we did it in three or four days, because it's only on four
track.
KEN SHARP: There's a real excitement that pervades that record,
though, I mean the songs aren't that complicated but....
IAN MCLAGAN: They're not that worked out, really, because we
didn't rehearse.
KEN SHARP: Would you do live vocals?
IAN MCLAGAN: No, we'd do the instrumental backing on one track,
lead vocal on another track, any organ or guitar solos on the
third track, and backing vocals on the final track.
STEVE MARRIOTT: The Cavern was one of the nicest places we played.
I don't think it had a bar in those days. I remember when we were
down there we thought we'd invented words like "spliff"
and stuff like that -- off the Jamaicans we used to score the
shit off of. We had a song called "Pass the Spliff,"
and all these guys in the audience would just crack up. We thought
it was our word -- our in-word, just between each other, something
to laugh at. We'd do the number "Pass the Spliff" --
then it was very taboo. The song "E Too D" was just
that, E to D -- the two chords in it. A two-chord song. It was
not meant to have "too," just "to."
RONNIE LANE: "Itchycoo Park" was my idea basically,
but Steve helped me to finish it off.
STEVE MARRIOTT: I used to take the piss as much as I could. "Itchycoo
Park" is a piss take, 'cos we were never too Hippy Trippy
and all that. We used to take the piss out of ourselves and everything.
We had a good sense of humor.
IAN MCLAGAN: "Itchycoo Park" has always annoyed me.
It's a lovely song though -- I like the song, it's the chorus
that I don't like. See, if you picture it as a Ronnie Lane song,
which it was almost entirely, if Ronnie Lane had sung it ... see
I don't like Steve's voice when he sings like that -- I can't
bear it when he sings with the pretty little voice like that --
I want to smack him! (Imitates Steve singing chorus) It's just
too sweet. But see when Ronnie Lane sung it.... He asked me to
tour with him in 1990, and I said yeah, I'd love it, but on one
condition -- I don't wanna do "Itchycoo Park." Now I
look back on it, it was pretty rotten of me, but I really didn't
want to do it. We did the tour and we rehearsed it, but we didn't
do it.
KEN SHARP: Mac said he didn't like it when Steve sang in that
sweet, pretty voice. How'd you feel about it?
KENNEY JONES: No, I didn't mind it, I liked it. The thing was,
it showed a different side of Steve, of his talent, and the great
thing was, you knew when he sang like that, he wasn't for long,
you know, before he really hammered it down. I think Steve had
a great voice in the songs without the power behind it as well.
STEVE MARRIOTT: It was basically a nick from an old hymn called
"God Be in My Head," it was an old melody that stuck
in Ronnie's mind, I think. I mean, Ronnie came to me and he had
the melody of the first part, and the chorus, and I thought of
the sort of mad middle eight bit. It's one of the few combined
writing efforts that me and Ronnie did, 'cos usually we wrote
separately, and then presented them to each other, and maybe suggested
little bits.I remember when I thought of the middle eight for
it we were in two cars coming back from a gig and he was in the
car behind me. We had braked and I'd gone running out -- it was
at night -- and I sung it to him and said "Whaddaya think
that is," and a police car pulled up opposite, and about
10 policemen leapt out and ran towards the car. And I thought
"Christ, we're going to get busted," you know we were
doing what you do (laughs). And I was leaning in the window talking
to Ronnie, and they run right past us. It was one of those freaky
things I've never forgotten. It was a burglary going on in the
shop that we'd pulled up outside of. My heart stopped for a minute
because it was very illegal then to do anything naughty, you know.
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah, it was pretty difficult (to play "Itchycoo
Park live). We weren't a good band then. That Australian tour
-- The Who slaughtered us, really. It was a shame really, but
they were so great. They'd been touring non-stop and were still
making their albums in 4 or 5 days really, and we'd had almost
a year all off. We had only the occasional gig; we spent the whole
year in the studio.
KEN SHARP: Where was Itchycoo Park? Didn't it have another name?
IAN MCLAGAN: I don't know the name, but it was in the East End.
That was the nickname for it because there were stinging nettles
there. They should have fucking renamed it, don't you think. You
know, the Beatles got Penny Lane.... (Note: Paolo Hewitt identifies
the real Itchycoo Park as being Manor Park, although there's some
disagreement among band members over whether it was meant to be
generic or about one specific park.)
KENNEY JONES: "Itchycoo Park" is basically a statement.
Although, there was a place in Ilford -- but there was a place
everywhere, even in the East End. Although I grew up on bomb ruins
-- Hitler's bombs fell on our street, right -- so my playground
was the bomb ruins, right. I just played on all this stuff, I
never questioned it, just had a wonderful time playing on all
this rubble. And there was a lot of stinging nettles that grew
there, and you'd have on short trousers, and they'd sting your
legs and you'd get all itchycoo, right. And everyplace had its
own "Itchycoo Park," really.
KEN SHARP: Where was that photo taken - the cover of the American
"There re But Four Small Faces?" Was that Itchycoo Park?
IAN MCLAGAN: No. I'm not sure I remember, but it might have been
Hempstead.
KEN SHARP: How about your song "Up the Wooden Hills to Bedfordshire"?
IAN MCLAGAN: Do you know what that means? Up the stairs to bed.
Wooden hills. It was an expression that Ronnie Lane's father used
to use when he was about to go to bed "....well, it's up
the wooden hills to Bedfordshire...." I thought it was a
lovely line. It's a drug song I suppose. I used to be stoned all
the time -- you know, when you "sleep" -- trying to
explain how you felt. "When you're slipping into sleep..."
isn't falling asleep, it's gettin' stoned.
KEN SHARP: What about "Here Come the Nice?" Were you
guys surprised that no one caught on to what you were really saying?
IAN MCLAGAN: We figured everyone was fucking stupid. You know,
we used to roll joints and try to be neat and perfect. We used
to have competitions: Top Ten spot and all.
KEN SHARP: Who was the best?
IAN MCLAGAN: I was, usually.
KEN SHARP: Who was the worst?
IAN MCLAGAN: Ronnie Lane. He was often second or third. But...I'd
get a good neat one, and I remember one time we were driving north
somewhere and we were in the back of the car, and as we were turning
round a corner there was a policeman at the corner, and I lit
it -- I'm just like so cocky I'm thinking "...yeah go on,
what're ya gonna do..." and he didn't notice. The whole thing
was our little game: we're stoned and you don't know it, and we're
laughing and you don't know why we're laughing. Just a silly thing.
And like, "Here Come the Nice" was really pushin' it.
Steve was really pushin' it to the extremes. "Itchycoo Park,"
too, for that matter.
KEN SHARP: "Nice" was like speed? A speed dealer?
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah, "Here Come the Nice" was from the
Lord Buckley track, "Here Come the Nazz." The Nazz meant
Jesus, it was like a rap, a real rap. It was Steve's way of using
it, it was like here come the nazz, the nice, a dealer, basically.
He meant here comes the man who gets you high. A friend. It wasn't
like a dealer nowadays, the dealer was your friend in those days
when you were buyin' dope.
KEN SHARP: How about "Green Circles?" Was that inspired
by somebody who used to live with you guys, like a dream he had?
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah, I suppose an acid trip, I dunno....yeah, Mick
O'Sullivan, he lived with us at about that time. He even gets
songwriting credit, I don't suppose the gets any money, though,
either (laughs).
KEN SHARP: One of my favorites is "Talk to You"; do
you like that one? It's like a little blues riff...
KENNEY JONES: Yeah, "Talk to You" is a great song,
they're all great songs. All those songs are great. When you've
got great material, you can really play great, really do something
to it. When you've got songs that are just ordinary, you've got
to really search yourself to find something to do with it. It
should be natural.
IAN MCLAGAN: I can't recall that one, haven't heard it for such
a long time. You know, Paul Weller always loved "Get Yourself
Together." He sang with me, with my band in L.A.; I played
with his band as well. We did a Marvin Gaye song. He did "Whatcha
Gonna Do About It?" and "All or Nothing." I haven't
heard The Jam's or Weller's covers of Small Faces songs.
KEN SHARP: Have you heard Todd Rundgren's "Tin Soldier?"
IAN MCLAGAN: No, I never have. Does it sound like the Small Faces?
That's his talent for me -- his talent being someone else. He
did a Motown spoof that was brilliant -- "You Cried Wolf."
KEN SHARP: "I'm Only Dreaming" is one of my favorites,
and that really spotlights you?
IAN MCLAGAN: I can't remember that one. I remember "Eddie's
Dreaming"; "I'm Only Dreaming," all I can think
of is that Beatles song ... (sings I'm only dreaming to the tune
of "I'm Only Sleeping"). If I heard it I would remember
it. So, I was working on the book, and I had this story of what
that song ("Eddie's Dreaming") was all about, so I got
the CD out and I was listening....I don't know if you've heard
the original version, the only version that should have been out,
but the ending of the song....Eddie was Eddie Thornton, the trumpet
player of Georgie Fame, and him and Speedy the congo player played
on the track. And Eddie would get stoned with us -- he's West
Indian (does Jamaican-sounding voice): "...I've got to tell
ya mon, I've got to tell ya mon...." and that's all he'd
ever say. And it was like, Eddie's dreaming. Eddie's stoned. And
so, at the end of the track they put the horns on, and after he
finished the track, he started this rap, so we faded it down and
faded it back up again to that. And now they've put it out on
CD without the false ending, which was the whole point of the
track! [At that time, the track ending was accidentally snipped
off the now-deleted US Small Faces' 2nd album.]
KENNEY JONES: I remember on "I'm Only Dreaming" we
all got bits of pins and paper and stuck it on the piano hammers,
and that's how we got the effect on the piano. I didn't only play
drums on the records, I played my drum stool with brushes. I played
on "If I Were a Carpenter" -- we were all sitting around
and playing it, and it didn't sound right on the drum kit, so
I started playing on the drum stool with brushes -- the stool
was quite rough. And I said to Glyn Johns, all right, mike it,
and that's how I did it. I also played Andy Fairweather Low's
guitar case on "La Booga Rooga."
STEVE MARRIOTT: "The Universal" was recorded in my
back garden. On one of them (referring to interviewer's tape recorder).
The dog was barking because my roadie had just turned up to go
to a gig. What I done was, I got up, had a boiled egg in the garden.
I had me 12-string, and I was writing this song, and I thought
"this sounds good, I'll slap it down." You can even
hear me missus saying "Hello Dave" to me roadie. We
tried to do it in the studio, but it didn't work. 'Cos obviously
the way I sung it, it was right off the fucking cuff, and when
you come to do it in the studio, you've got red lights, microphones,
and it's not the same. So we kept the cassette version, and dubbed
on the trombone, and all we kept was my voice and 12-string, and
all the noises that went with it -- the cars and dog. It's a great
song! I just woke up and thought "we are The Universal."
It was such a beautiful day, the sun was out, the wind was blowing,
and I thought "what a fucking lovely day." I wrote it
about how I felt at that moment.
NEIL MORGAN: Bands usually didn't get a say in anything after
signing on the dotted line. It was well documented at the time
that you didn't want "Lazy Sunday" released.
STEVE MARRIOTT: No, I wanted "Afterglow." Mind you,
they're businessmen, and they knew "Lazy Sunday" would
make it, just like they knew about "Itchycoo Park."
When we done 'em, we done 'em as one-off little album tracks.
Y'see, the harm it does the band is like it gets released in America
or Australia, and like "Itchycoo Park" was the Small
Faces' hit in America, but it wasn't anything like the fuckin'
band, y'know -- it was just a little spin-off thing we done for
a giggle.
KEN SHARP: What do you think about "Afterglow"?
KENNEY JONES: I remember being in Olympic, and "Afterglow"...
funnily enough, I've just played on a track on an album by a band
that were in my studio, and they asked me to play on it. I said
no. Get your drummer to play on it. But what happened was I kept
going past and it wasn't going right, so in the end I walked in
there and I said "all right, I'll do it." And it felt
spooky and I felt nervous because I didn't like playing on a Small
Faces track without playing with the others.
IAN MCLAGAN: I played an instrument on that and I have no idea
what it was. I thought it was a theremin, but it wasn't. It had
no keys on it, and you put your hand on there ... it was there
for some sort of orchestral thing they were doing in the studio.
"Afterglow" is a real good one. I really like "Tin
Soldier".
KEN SHARP: You know what really bugs me about that song are those
off-time cymbal crashes...
IAN MCLAGAN: I know! Glyn! It was just an echo, it's not even
off beat.
KEN SHARP: Maybe when you do a real reissue you can take that
off...
IAN MCLAGAN: I know, I want to! I would absolutely do that! But
it would be unfair to change the way the song originally came
out for those who like that bit -- maybe an alternate mix just
for you and me ... that was Glyn Johns idea, that bit of delay.
It was a useless idea, really. He did get some really great sounds
for us, though.
KENNEY JONES: Glyn was messin' around with echo and that was
what happened. I quite like it. Once I'd agreed to like it, and
said, "...yeah okay, leave it," and then I realized
"...but fuck, how'm I gonna play it like that?" I've
learnt how to play the echo -- I can play the echo. In fact it's
incredibly simple now, I can do it.
KEN SHARP: What do you remember about the recording of "Tin
Soldier"?
IAN MCLAGAN: I'm all over it -- there's a Wurlitzer, there's
a piano, and an organ. It's a great vocal by Steve. Except for
the first verse, that little girlie voice I can't bear.
KENNEY JONES: I remember just looking at everybody, right, and
just playing it. The great thing is we never over-questioned or
over-arranged anything. It was just, that's it, that'll work,
that's great. Everything was done in the first or second take.
And our jams! Glyn used to record our jams -- "Rollin' Over"
is a jam -- we just jammed it and he happened to leave the tape
recorder on.
KEN SHARP: I think P. P.Arnold added a lot to that ["Tin
Soldier"] as well.
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah, oh yeah. I bumped into her in L.A. in about
1978 or so. My accountant is in contact with her in negotiations
over the Immediate material, and I sent her my love recently.
I haven't seen her for awhile.
RONNIE LANE: ("Tin Soldier") was primarily Steve's
tune. It reminds me of a place Steve was living on the Thames
river, a small place, and cor!, he wrecked it! That's where he
wrote "Lazy Sunday," that was basically a true story,
the neighbors were banging on his wall, "doing his crust
in" as he says in the song.
KEN SHARP: Allegedly the band was in the middle of recording
a new album when Steve split. If so, how far into it were you?
With stuff like "Don't Burst My Bubble," "The Autumn
Stone," "Red Balloon," etc.? Did Peter Frampton
play on any of that material?
IAN MCLAGAN: No, Frampton never played on any of it. We were
working on a new album, and Immediate released it as In Memoriam
which we objected to, so they released it instead as The Autumn
Stone eventually. One day when we get the rights to that material,
we'll sit down in the studio with the boxes and figure it all
out.
KEN SHARP: You guys recorded and produced a song for P. P. Arnold
called "(If You Think You're) Groovy". Is there a version
of the Small Faces doing it?
IAN MCLAGAN: Well, we recorded and played on Pat's (P. P. Arnold's)
version, so it's us on the track. I don't remember if Steve sang
it or if there was a guide vocal.
KENNEY JONES: One of my favorite tracks is one that didn't come
out under our name, funnily enough, it's P. P. Arnold's "(If
You Think You're) Groovy." I think a Small Faces version
with Steve singing it does exist. I think I've heard it. One of
us may have a copy lying around somewhere; I'd have to look for
that.
KEN SHARP: As great as that version is, and as well as P. P.
sings it, I could really hear Steve singing that song -- I bet
he'd do it great.
KENNEY JONES: I thought Steve and Ronnie were really kind to
give that to her, because it could've been a big hit for the Small
Faces. I didn't mind, I played on it, but it was all by accident.
We all went by the studio together, and Pat and her band were
doing it. And suddenly, the drummer couldn't get it right, I mean,
don't get me wrong, he was a great drummer (ed. note: Pat's band
went on to become The Nice), but for some reason it just wasn't
working out. So I was in the booth with Glyn Johns, and Steve
was trying to show him how to play it, and I went on the mike
and said "here, if you'll just do it like ... well, I'll
just come down and show you." So I got on the kit, and showed
him, and remember, I'd never played the song before. And he learned
it, and then they came to another point where it just wasn't right,
so I showed him another part. And in the end he said "...come
on, you just play it." and I said "no, that's not right,
you play it. And everybody else chimed in, so in the end I just
played it. It wound up being the whole Small Faces on that cut.
KEN SHARP: Do you remember any other songs you played on with
P. P.? Were you on her big hit "The First Cut is the Deepest?"
KENNEY JONES: I can't remember, really. We did a lot -- I did
quite a lot of sessions for a lot of different people in those
days. The great thing about it then was it was like being a gigantic
band. All the bands played together.
KEN SHARP: Were you involved in any of the tracks by the Andrew
Loog Oldham Orchestra?
KENNEY JONES: More'n'likely, 'cos I did a lot of sessions.
KEN SHARP: It seems like regardless of the things that went down
later with the money and all, all the artists wanted to help each
other out.
KENNEY JONES: Oh yeah, without a doubt.
KEN SHARP: Let me ask you about some specific tracks that have
been listed as existing Small Faces outtakes. How about "Be
My Baby?"
IAN MCLAGAN: No, I don't remember it. Could have.
KENNEY JONES: Yeah, we did that one, yeah. It exists somewhere.
KEN SHARP: The Supremes' "Love is Here and Now You're Gone"?
IAN MCLAGAN: Sounds like too many chords for us to have handled.
Don't remember it.
KENNEY JONES: I can't visualize that, but we must have done it.
KEN SHARP: How about "Mind the Doors Please," a send
up of the London Underground with chanted vocals by Ronnie Lane?
IAN MCLAGAN: I do remember we used to go (funny voice) "...mind
the door!" As a song I don't remember it.
KENNEY JONES: Oh yeah, that was funny. We did that at Olympic,
and it was just me fucking around, basically. 'Cos all it was,
was I was just fucking around on the tom tom's. I used to just
constantly play, you know, just searching for different ways of
playing fillings, different sounds. And they used to just let
me do it, just leave me alone -- they knew I was searching for
different ways of doing things -- that was one of the great things
about the band. Even though the tom toms were kind of annoying,
and I got this nickname "Shut Up Kenney," you know.
So I was on the tom toms, and I had this particular sound, and
I played the drums as if I were on a train (makes sounds). And
it gets faster, and Ronnie heard what I was doing, and instant
telepathy again, played this fast descending bassline as a rundown,
if it was a train, and we all joined in. And that was it, really.
KEN SHARP: How about "Shimmer"? These could be working
titles you know....
IAN MCLAGAN: No.
KENNEY JONES: No.
KEN SHARP: How about "Uncle Charlie's Fruitgum"?
KENNEY JONES: No.
IAN MCLAGAN: Now that sounds like Andrew Oldham. (heatedly) These
sound like bullshit titles! We had "Donkey Rides, Penny a
Glass" and it sounds like Andrew was trying hard to come
up with titles that sounded like us.
KEN SHARP: How about "Wallop McKenzie"?
IAN MCLAGAN: Now that was quite likely a title, because Wallop
McKenzie was what our driver Bill Corbett used to say: "...now
you go down here, and you go down there, and Wallop McKenzie there
you are...." It's like gibberish.
KENNEY JONES: Yeah, that exists. I don't remember it, though.
And I'll tell you where they are, all those songs exist on the
multi-tracks, and I've got to get the multi-tracks, whoever's
got them. I want to protect them. All the real outtakes.
KEN SHARP: "Shake" was originally sung live on stage
by Ronnie (ed. note: see the BBC live sessions on various bootlegs;
actually there's now a fine BBC Sessions CD available).
IAN MCLAGAN: That's right it was always sung by Ronnie. Ronnie
had a Wilson Pickett song he always sung, too.
KEN SHARP: Why were the Small Faces doing covers at the end of
your career of songs like "If I Were a Carpenter," "Every
Little Bit Hurts," and "Red Balloon?"
IAN MCLAGAN: We just loved 'em. They were great songs. We did
a Lonnie Mack song called "Why," we used to listen to
it along, can't remember if we ever recorded it. There might be
a few tracks lying about, like "Be My Baby." I don't
know. We used to do alot of stuff live we never recorded.
KEN SHARP: Were there ever any songs the band wrote and never
recorded?
IAN MCLAGAN: No, we pretty much recorded everything we ever wrote.
We did record about 20 tracks and only put out 9 though, you know.
KEN SHARP: So there's really not much unreleased?
IAN MCLAGAN: I don't think so, no. I listened to some of those
things on the Charly box set, but I don't know. I'm not sure all
that's even us. There's an album available on cassette called
"Rod Stewart and the Small Faces" but there's no connection
between those. That lineup never existed. Immediate is the connection,
we were on Immediate, Rod had an album on Immediate, so you get
one side of Small Faces and one side of Rod Stewart on the album.
And it's all those phony remixed tracks, no vocals, and so on.
KEN SHARP: How about the backing tracks that don't have vocals
that came out? What's that stuff?
IAN MCLAGAN: (heatedly) I've no idea, I'd like to see the boxes.
I don't even know if some of it is us!
