SMALL FACES AS MUSICIANS
KEN SHARP: Were the shows pretty similar throughout the three
years you guys toured? Did you play a lot of different styles
and material?
KENNEY JONES: We played pretty much the same, consistently, all
the way through. We played slightly differently because there
was a natural style progression change. When we signed with Immediate,
the music was very similar, but it was actually more dynamic approach
to it. My drumming, I'll never forget, I thought I'm gonna think
like a classical drummer, and I'm gonna think "powerful."And
that's all I did say to myself, and I played some amazing fills.
Incredibly simple but -- the timing of them -- I think it's stunning
now.
KEN SHARP: I loved your drum sound on the Immediate stuff onwards.
KENNEY JONES: What I had there is I knew exactly what I wanted
by then, and we all had the good fortune of working with Glyn
Johns as an engineer. And he progressed with sound -- new tape
machines and things like that -- more toys. One of the greatest
sounds I've ever had, I think, is in the early Olympic studios,
because downstairs they had an echo chamber room, a natural echo
which is set up with one mike and a speaker. Glyn and I used to
love it, we used to go down there and reposition it, and come
back up and feed it though the deck and you'd get this lovely
ambient sound. And I love ambient sounds. I love big sounds, I
don't like to dampen the drums in any way. I like the sounds of
the drum to be exactly what it is, 'cos that's what it is.
KEN SHARP: Did you have a lot to do with that drum phasing on
"Itchycoo Park?"
KENNEY JONES: Yeah, we looped two machines together and went
'round the back of over a chair so it just continually went (makes
swooshing noise). It was great.
KEN SHARP: It's a sound that Glyn Johns says he consciously never
used again with anything.
KENNEY JONES: Yeah, that's right. I did. What I do sometimes
is I love to put a little bit, just a little hint -- it's like
a spice as I call it -- of phasing onto a drum sound, which is
lovely. It gives you the edge -- it gives you that floating feeling.
And sometimes when we play live I love to feed the mixer out front
and put phasing through it. It's great. Just ever so slightly
so you don't hardly know it's there.
KEN SHARP: What keyboards did you use in the Small Faces?
IAN MCLAGAN: A Flattop Wurlitzer piano, and an M100 Hammond.
KEN SHARP: Do you still have those instruments?
IAN MCLAGAN: I don't have that very one, I have two, one's a
real old one that gives the Ray Charles sound, you know like "What'd
I Say." It's a flattop with a wire music stand, and there's
a later one with a wooden music stand that isn't. And then the
Wurlitzer, the A200 with the rolling top, like the one I played
on stage last night, they don't sound half as good. The other
ones just don't travel well, don't stay in tune, but I love the
sound of 'em. I've got four or five of 'em.
KEN SHARP: How did you first hear a song? Did Steve and Ronnie
come in and run it down on acoustic guitar?
KENNEY JONES: Well I hated hanging about in the studio, so I'd
be downstairs working on my mini outside the studio nine times
out of ten, because I hated waiting about. And a roadie would
come down and say "Right, okay, Steve's got it down now,
you can come up and do the drums now" and half the time I
never even knew the song. I never even heard the song, we'd just
run through it once or twice and we'd get it. That's the best
way -- it's almost like I knew what was coming next.
KEN SHARP: It's really amazing that the band really improved
tremendously in a short period of time. I mean, Steve, and Ronnie
really became inventive on the bass.
IAN MCLAGAN: Oh yeah, Steve always underrated himself. So did
Ronnie. He was one of the classiest bass players because he had
no aspirations of being a bass player, he was playing for the
song. Always! And you can't ask for more than that. And Steve
was a fantastic rhythm player. You know, he was Keith Richard's
first choice for the Stones, but Mick couldn't compete with that
voice. Mick wasn't going to have that voice in the band, because
he knew Steve couldn't stay quiet. I love Mick's voice, he's got
more voices than Steve. Steve had that scream. Steve would overuse
that -- eventually I got to hate it; I love his early stuff.
KEN SHARP: Hate the Humble Pie stuff?
IAN MCLAGAN: Well, I never listened to that really.
KENNEY JONES: I didn't like it, no, and I'll tell you why. It
was trying to be too heavy. It was a band that was trying to hard.
It was overarranged, I thought. It was oversung. It was overkill,
basically. And it was over there in America where you are. We
all ended up heavier anyway. We formed the Faces, and got over
to the States and were quite successful anyway.
KEN SHARP: Why did Steve say that he wasn't a good guitar player?
You hear him on a song like "Song of a Baker" and he
was a.....
IAN MCLAGAN: (interrupting) He was full of shit in that way.
He was a great guitar player.
KEN SHARP: Why was he insecure about his guitar playing?
IAN MCLAGAN: Because he was modest, but to the extreme of saying
he was a crappy guitarist. But it was false modesty. He was a
fucking great guitarist.
KEN SHARP: Do you think he knew he was a great singer?
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah! Shit yeah! He was confident in his singing
and his guitar playing, it was only when he would talk about his
guitar playing, it was secondary to his singing, so he figured
he'd say that he was...I never believed that for a minute, you
know. Keith Richard wanted him for the Rolling Stones, you know.
KEN SHARP: Do you ever listen back to those tracks critically?
KENNEY JONES: I'm a big fan of the Small Faces stuff now, it's
been so many years. Even now I listen and go "how'd I do
that" and I can't quite remember.
IAN MCLAGAN: Actually I'm constantly amazed that it sounds okay.
I mean, I don't listen to it a lot. I just got all the stuff that's
been put out in the last couple of years by Charly and Castle,
and it's like, right, put it on top of the counter, and well,
I've got it but I'm not gonna listen to it. It's hard to go back
to it. I just get impatient, I listen to it and it's like, yeah,
heard that, been there, did it right! I'd rather listen to music
that's fresh, that doesn't have all those overtones of emotion
for me -- sometimes happy, sometimes sad.
STEVE MARRIOTT: As far as a philosophy of production goes, I
think Ronnie and I felt that if we got a good drum sound and a
good bass sound, the rest is cream on the top. That the rest would
produce itself if the bass and drums are sounding punchy and clear.
That's what we went for every time. Everything else was easy once
you got that down. I can't understand people who try to get a
guitar sound before they go for the kit. Everything should be
behind the bass, not in front of it. The "Wall of Sound"
thing didn't really affect us -- I didn't want to be the Ronettes.
We were looking for a Tamla sound, which was bass and drums, basically.
Same as Booker T -- that's why we opted for that lineup.
KEN SHARP: The sad part about the Small Faces' gigs is that very
few if any gigs were ever recorded properly, except the Newcastle
gig which always turns up on albums. You'd open up with "You
Need Lovin'" and really stretch out.
KENNEY JONES: I know. Towards the end there we had quite a good
band we had. Speedy Aquaye on the congas, and we had Eddie "Tan
Tan" Thornton -- who we wrote that song with, "Eddie's
Dreaming," with the Georgie Fame brass section, and we went
out on the road with it and all of a sudden we were fucking great.
That sound, I would've liked to continue with that. We would definitely
have gone into ... I don't know, I wish we would have never broke
up....
